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Newco Rangers and the Ramifications

June 25, 2012

The rumours inside football and in the media are flying fast about Newco Rangers possibly being admitted into the SFL First Division. The Sonstrust Board has been discussing the situation and listening carefully over the past week to what fans and those inside the Club are feeling. Now we want you to have your say.

 But first a few thoughts on a fast-changing situation.

The First Division option for the Newco is intended as a ‘compromise’ between admitting the re-formed Rangers back into the SPL (which almost everybody thinks would be totally wrong) and making them apply to the bottom rung of the SFL or even lower, which could prove unviable.

One thing is certain. No option will please everybody, and every option will annoy many people! But something has to be done. The integrity of the game is at stake. But so is its future. In the final analysis, it’s not about Newco Rangers – nor should it be.

Opinion among the DFC faithful seems to be divided, to say the least. The majority of fans appear pretty unhappy about the idea of the Newco playing in the division that Dumbarton and other clubs have got to by hard sweat on and off the field.

On the other hand, not unnaturally, those who run the Club can see some real financial and other benefits accruing not just to Dumbarton and to this Division but to Scottish football as a whole.

Everyone agrees that the financial split between larger and smaller clubs, the privileged position of the Old Firm, the fact that football below the SPL is overlooked and way fans are marginalised in big decisions about the future is every bit as much a disgrace as what has been allowed to happen at Rangers.

That being the case, and there being no ideal solution to the Newco dilemma, there’s a strong case for arguing that any option on the table (like the First Division one) should be used to get a far better deal for all lower league clubs and for a future that could also involve a pyramid below the SFL. That’s what’s being thrashed out behind the scenes at the moment – as the recent statement from the SFA, SFL and SPL shows.  

Looking at things from that wider horizon: None of us want to see any football club go out of business. But the infractions that have led to Rangers’ liquidation are not minor. They have seriously disadvantaged other clubs and brought shame and disrepute onto the game in Scotland.

Since Newco Rangers would go out of business if refused entry to both the SPL and the SFL, it is likely that they will be admitted into one of the lower divisions. This is not ideal, but the reality is that the Newco assets would in any case outstrip competitors for such a place because of the economic power of the purchaser.

This being the case, the governing authorities in Scottish football now have the opportunity to acknowledge clearly the harmful over-dependence of the game on the Old Firm and on revenues accruing to the richest, and to act decisively to promote the redevelopment of the game in Scotland on more sustainable lines, consulting and involving supporters directly on its future. That’s something the Sonstrust is absolutely clear about.

As to Newco Rangers in the First Division, specifically? Dumbarton FC will obviously play whoever the opposition is in the First Division in season 2012/13. Manager Alan Adamson has made his views clear in the Daily Record.

Now we want to hear from YOU. Please leave comments below. We’ll make sure that those who have responsibility to decide hear what you are saying.

48 Comments leave one →
  1. 1406 permalink
    June 25, 2012 1:43 pm

    This really isn’t difficult. The rules are there. They don’t mention what the money or finances mean to other clubs

    A club wishing to join should provide three years accounts. End of.

    Oh, and I seem to have missed the canvassing done by Mr Adamson when he took the opinions of the fans, but maybe having held a season ticket for 31 years and followed through thick and thin means that my opinion doesn’t count.

  2. David Ferguson permalink
    June 25, 2012 2:06 pm

    Thanks to the Sonstrust for the above, interesting points made but I’m afraid it raises more questions. Firstly, I don’t see why there has to be a “compromise” regarding Rangers. They currently do not have league license so should, as every other team would have to do, apply to the bottom division for consideration. Can I ask why this option is unviable? Seems perfectly viable to me.

    Secondly, I’m all for reconstruction of the leagues with pyramid system and fairer distribution of the finances but as far as I’m concerned, this reconstruction can happen without Newco Rangers or if they must be admitted then it MUST be to the lowest division. They had their chance to run their club in accordance with the rules and have failed massively – they should not be allowed directly back in at any level without consideration of all other applicants and if they must come back then they have to work from the bottom up (as every other club applying for a league place would).

    I personally would like to see the restructure go ahead but if a condition of the restructure is that Rangers float into SFL1 then it’s a no from me. I would sincerely hope the club oppose that option which is banded around as a “compromise” when in reality it is exactly the self preservation that we despise and loathe at the top level just now and I would certainly be rethinking what I do on a Saturday afternoon should the club support this option.

  3. Casey permalink
    June 25, 2012 2:44 pm

    Imminent arrests I hear over Ibrox way.

    They bring nothing but bad news to Scotland.

    Get rid!!

    BTW 1406 above is mine too (user name followed me from elsewhere)

  4. Donald Crocket permalink
    June 25, 2012 2:45 pm

    I agree completely with the views expressed above by David Ferguson, and have written a letter to the DFC Chairman to this effect.

    It’s obvious that ‘economic realities’ would be the chief reason for the inclusion of the Newco in this season’s Division 1. With that in mind, wouldn’t Dumbarton benefit more if Airdrie Utd got the place instead of the Newco? With three part-time teams (ourselves, Airdrie and Cowdenbeath), we’d stand more of a chance of maintaining Division 1 status for more than one season.

    And the club wouldn’t be faced with the distinct probability of repulsed fans staying away.

    League reconstruction and a fairer distribution of revenue is long overdue. If this ‘Rangers situation’ is serving as a platform for discussion then so be it. But I don’t see why reconstruction depends on the unfair elevation (not relegation) of a new club to Division 1.

    If the DFC management want the Newco in Division 1, for short-term (ONE SEASON) financial gain, then I’m out. They wouldn’t deserve my time or my money.

  5. Son abroad permalink
    June 25, 2012 3:36 pm

    If it was sure that any reorganisation distributed money and power from the Old Firm and SPL clubs to Dumbarton and other SFL sides on a sustainable basis then I might be prepared to swallow this.

    But this has the hallmark of a deal to maintain the status quo once Rangers Newco has been “punished” for a season

  6. Sean Bangs. permalink
    June 25, 2012 3:46 pm

    Rangers FC in liquidation, have been seen to be cheating since ’93, double contracts, tax evasion, tax advoidence, non payment of monies owed to other clubs in way of shared gate receipts, non payment of transfer funds, wanting to sign players when on the verge on administration they simply couldn’t afford, as they have been for decades, yet there is talk of compromise as hundreds of creditors are left empty handed !!! They are lucky the SFA haven’t just wound them up.
    Just because they have a large following (not all of it nice) isnt good enough in my eyes to compromise and let a newco waltz straight back into the first division, something the Sons have had to work bloody hard at on a budget, to live within our means, why don’t we all go out and sign players we can’t afford as long as we have success, we’ll just enter administration and pop back up more likely in the third division, NO, we shouldn’t and won’t.

    Let newco go down to the third, give the wee clubs a bit of wealth from mighty fans of Sevco, pay their taxes, live within their means for a few years and come back if they can, in a healthier stronger position.

    This should be a time we are talking about ‘our’ season ‘our’ players, surely we have budgeted to play in the first so where newco end up shouldnt really affect us! the only financial gain is from home ticket sales, which won’t (can’t because of the low ground capacity) be much higher than other clubs visiting the Rock (just with a lower Policing bill) we’ll get nothing financailly from away games, so where is the financail gain? or is that a simplistic view!!

    I urge the club and trust to come out like other clubs are doing and will continue to do so against a newco being admitted back into the first division, we are here on merit, they would not be.

    Integrity must remain in the game, without that Scottish football is lost anyway.

  7. Pete McCormick permalink
    June 25, 2012 4:11 pm

    I would be in a quandry if Rangers were to be allowed immediate access to SFL1 or a new SPL2 which had been hastily set up as I would never like to be faced with the prospect of turning my back on the club that I love, but I would feel morally outraged that such a blatant re-working/bending/breaking of the rules had been allowed, perpetrated and encouraged by the clubs themselves and the SFL/SFA in order to assist a club who have cheated to achieve. Complicity in assisting Rangers to get their own way would alienate me from the club. Rangers are (or perhaps “were” would be more appropriate) only one of 42 professional football clubs in Scotland and they should not be allowed to dictate or coerce other clubs into doing their bidding for them. Even if SFL clubs were only voting in favour of accepting Rangers to the First Division in order to benefit financially.

  8. Pete McCormick permalink
    June 25, 2012 4:16 pm

    We should not be tempted by the filthy lucre of games against Rangers or televised matches. We cannot prostitute ourselves if we wish to be able to hold our heads up. We have survived for decades without televised matches and without games against the Old Firm to improve our bank balance. There is nothing for Dumbarton to gain, but everything for us to lose. Support would be lost, fans would be alienated, the club’s name amongst other teams who weren’t so keen to benefit would be forever tarnished and our chances of relegation, which are already very high, would become all but guaranteed by making an already difficult league even harder.

    If there is anything which the Sons Trust, the Sons supporters or the club themselves can do to avoid Rangers’ inclusion in Division One then it must be done immediately.

  9. Grant permalink
    June 25, 2012 4:37 pm

    Sevco are a new club and should be treated as such. They should apply for any potential vacancy in Division 3 and that’s it.

    We’ve spent the last 16 years battling for the right to be in this league though merit. If that right can be bought not earned then it is no longer sport. Scottish Football would become WWE style “Sports Entertainment”.

    The club risk alienating their core support – the people who year in, year out buy season tickets, strips and 50/50 tickets; support the Platinum Club; provide sponsorship – for the sake of parachuting in a club who previously showed their contempt for Scottish football by attempting leave when it suited THEIR agenda. The very club who’s actions killed off Airdrieonians which eventually instigated the demise of the SFL status of our county cousins.

    Right now, Sevco are in no position to dictate terms. This is a huge opportunity for Scottish football as a whole to put its house in order and split the two horse race. I would hope the club would look at the longer term success of club and the country as a whole rather than short term financial gain for a season or two.

  10. Bryan McMurtrie permalink
    June 25, 2012 5:54 pm

    Any new club applying for admission the the SFL must start at the lowest rung.Every club applying to join the SFL in history has started at the bottom rung, and rightly so. Why should Rangers be any different? Just because they have a larger fanbsae they deserve special treatment? Should Inverness / Ross County / Annan / Gretna have been allowed to jump straight into the first division? It’s completely disrespectful to every club in the 2nd & 3rd divisions to allow Rangers into the SFL above 3rd division level. What right do they have to do this?

    It flies in the face of what a sport should be. Why not do away with promotion and relegation and have the leagues setup in terms of fanbase and TV consumers? Only once you have more Season ticket holders than a team in the league above can you be promoted? As this is more or less what is being proposed with a ‘newco’ jumping 2 divisions.

    I think everyone wants the following:

    * One league body in the senior game
    * Promotion/relegation play-off between SPL and SFL First Division
    * Single financial distribution model
    * Pyramid system, with the potential for relegation from and promotion to the fourth tier

    Quite why we need to allow a club who, once that the SPL decline their share transfer will not be a part of Scottish Football to dictate the terms in which we can achieve the above is beyond me. Scottish Football has a chance to come out of this with a new future. If that future is tainted by allowing a team to skip 2 leagues simply because they’re a bigger club than others, and more importantly for me if our club are given a vote and choose to vote them in, then I would have to seriously consider whether or not to continue supporting a club, that disregarded my views (and the views of many others) and threw all virtue and integrity out of the window.

    I hope our board do the right thing and choose to oppose this. If they do they will have my continued support, if not then I don’t want to leave 20 plus years of history/support behind, but at the moment I have to be honest and say I’d likely not be back.

    I urge the Sons Trust to ask the club to clarify their position on this matter ASAP.

  11. Robert Hosie permalink
    June 25, 2012 7:05 pm

    I concur with the above comments. I would hope that the Trust Board relay to the full Board that admission to our division is not acceptable. The Old Firm have dictated the terms of admission to SPL for clubs who did not have the required stadium regulations, i.e seating or under soil heating. It was just seen as a way of making money for them and forget about the rest, this was apparent when they wanted to join the English leagues and just showed them out to screw the rest of Scottish football.Rangers should be made to apply to the SFL and start at the bottom and work their way up as other clubs have done.It would be interesting to see how many “true” fans they have. I don’t think the quick fix being proposed will benefit the lower leagues one bit as I think were Rangers go to Division 1 and get promoted, I may be wrong but another change of structure could take place to the detriment of the lower leagues and we would be back to square one. I don’t think DFC would gain that much extra revenue by having them in the league.

  12. June 25, 2012 7:24 pm

    Of course many junior sides will say, “Hang on, why should a Newco be allowed in the Third Division either?” That’s where some of them have been struggling to get. There is a difference in degree, but not in absolute principle, between the First and the Third. The reality, however, is that in any selection process, the Newco would have the resources to ‘win’.

    I agree with Grant and all the others who are angry about the way Rangers have treated Scottish football. I suspect, however, that whether we like it or not, the Newco is likely to end up no lower than the First Division if the SPL refuses its application. If that is the case – and I stress I’m not advocating it, just recognising it – then it has to be used as a significant lever to bring much-needed change to the game.In the final analysis, the issue shouldn’t be about an emotively driven desire for punishment/revenge alone (understandable though that feeling is), but about deeper reform of Scottish football, plus regulative measures to ensure this never happens again. If focus is lost on those last two aims amidst moral outrage, that would be the worst outcome of all. It would be letting the SPL and Rangers off the hook just as much (if not more) than will be the case if it’s the First rather than the Third.

    In short, my preference would be to see Newco Rangers in the Third Division next season (recognising that this is a compromise too), but if it’s the First let’s see how we can use it to the advantage of others involved and the future of the game as a whole. That should include compensation for Second and Third Division clubs, and a leg-up for a (long overdue) pyramid below the SFL, which now seems to be seriously on the agenda.

  13. jackdstephen permalink
    June 25, 2012 7:46 pm

    The Newco may be admitted to the SFL if the clubs vote for it.
    If they do; the precedent has been set in that when Gretna were in a similar position their entry was immediately subject to a demotion to Div 3. (Gretna then folded completely.
    leaving a slot for others to occupy.
    Can a newco satisfy the three years’ accounts proviso for admission to the SFL?
    My preference would be for the newco to be refused entry to the SFL. Scottish football can do without behemoths who throw their weight about and, even when caught in the worst financial chicanery, expect preferential treatment.
    Any new league set up under one administration must have sharing of gates betwee the participating clubs and equal sharing of TV monies among all members as its first article of association. Then we’ll see a properly competitive Scottish football.
    And I don’t give a toss about our standing as regards European coefficients. That whole scenario is a scam as well.

  14. David Kemp permalink
    June 25, 2012 7:52 pm

    I am totally against sevco being admitted to division 1. In my lifetime the six clubs admitted to the SFL have started in division 3 and sevco should be applying for a place in division 3. When Airdrieonians were liquidated, the newco that was formed had to apply for the division 3 vacancy. There’s the precedent.

    The compromise of sevco being in division 1 in return for a change in the way the game is run is unacceptable to me. It smacks of a club and a league that couldn’t care less for SFL teams trying to save their own skin because their in trouble due to the possibility of losing a tv contract.

    As the prospect of sevco becoming a division
    3 team being unviable – what a load of rubbish. If the lower league grounds are good enough for cup-ties, then they are good enough for league matches. Don’t they need SFA licences and local authority approval to stage any games anyway? The bottom line for me is, if a ground holds 1500, then you only admit 1500 people. Simple.

    I have supported Dumbarton for 28 years and will continue to be a supporter for the rest of my life. But if DFC vote to allow sevco directly into division 1, then I won’t be back at DFS. This isn’t a decision I have taken lightly but it is one I will act on.

  15. fraser permalink
    June 25, 2012 8:06 pm

    new rangers are just that and should not be treated like lepers , we would hope a new start is just that ,however they should start in div 3 but if the sfl clubs in divs 2/3 vote to let them in div 1 then so be it ,just get it sorted its draggin on to long ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

  16. David W permalink
    June 25, 2012 8:49 pm

    No preferential treatment should be given to Newco Rangers. The third division is their rightful place and it is incmbent on the Dumbarton board to ensure that they play their part in ensuring this occurs.

    Anything else is a sham and a disgrace. Rangers used and abused Scottish Football and would have tossed it aside like an old rag had the EPL allowed them to join their league. They didn’t give a thought to the ramifications of that on Scottish football.

  17. John Cartwright permalink
    June 25, 2012 8:53 pm

    am slightly intrigued at reports that the fans are split on this issue. I have yet to speak to any DFC who thinks the newco should be allowed to enter SFL1

    I can understand Alan Adamson’s view that he would like to test our players against the like of Rangers….all managers want to manage at the highest level, however, given their top players look increasingly likely to move on, it may not be such an attractive proposition now

    Am in total agreement with the comments above that we have worked bloody hard to get where we are, and sticking to a budget, so why would we allow cheats to join us. In addition, its hard to see what we can gain financially from this given our limited ground capacity

  18. Fraser Macfarlane permalink
    June 25, 2012 10:09 pm

    The Rangers should definitely not be admitted to the First Division. They should be treated in the same manner as any other team in these circumstances; they should have to apply to get in to the Third Division.

    “On the other hand, not unnaturally, those who run the Club can see some real financial and other benefits”

    Short term, yes, but if the fans who are a steady, consistent source of income don’t return to the club then the one off money from The Rangers being in our league isn’t really worth it.

    It is pretty clear the way the fans feel about this matter and I hope the club votes accordingly.

  19. alec darroch permalink
    June 25, 2012 10:23 pm

    Looking at the comments of the spl chairmen who have spoken out against the newco playing in the spl; they all talk of sporting integrity. For the sfl now to sacrifice their integrity and admit newco entry to the first would be plain wrong. the changes to league structure, voting rights and distribution of income should be entirely separate issues. It suits the spl chairmen to dodge issue and pass the decision on newco playing next yearonto the sfl. Watch for them then backing away from the sfa talks and cornering celtic into reform of the spl before newco return to the top tier. In short, entry should only be to the third for a new team.

  20. Scott permalink
    June 25, 2012 10:28 pm

    I’d like to think if the club were to have a say in this that they’d listen to the views of the supporters and vote accordingly. It’s pretty clear from reading these comments, and comments elsewhere, what the supporters think. I just hope the DFC board act upon fans wishes and don’t risk losing the long term support of the people who will plough thousands and thousands of pounds into this club over a lifetime in return for two sold out home fixtures over the course of one season.

    I seriously urge the club to do the right thing.

  21. Pachyderm permalink
    June 26, 2012 12:04 pm

    Pachyderm: No to NewCo in SFL 1. Make them go even lower!

  22. Kenny Ross permalink
    June 26, 2012 12:39 pm

    We must be seen as doing the correct thing by following the rules. I fervently believe that we have little to gain financially from allowing the newco into the first (although this for me is not a valid point in any case). We must ensure that no newco walks straight into the first ahead of clubs who strive to achieve this through years of struggle on the lower leagues.

    I would encourage our board to make a similar announcement to that of Raith Rovers and to reassure their support that we are not going to sanction such disregard to the rules. Two wrongs have never made a right.

  23. Jordan Brownlee permalink
    June 26, 2012 1:07 pm

    We stand at a crossroad in the long history of Scottish football. It is the first opportunity in my lifetime to truly change it for the better. The proposed restructuring is a good thing and long overdue. It is however sad that it has taken the liquidation of Rangers FC to force these changes through, and slightly ironic given that they were one of the key stakeholders in keeping the status quo for the sole benefit of themselves and Celtic.

    We must take the right path because we may never have a better opportunity. The proposed introduction of a newco straight in to SFL1 is morally wrong and goes against the very principles of sport. For this reason alone any newco should enter the SFL like previous new entrants, via the lowest tier, and work their way up the divisions like everyone else.

    The board of DFC must listen to the fans and oppose this. If they don’t they risk alienating a large percentage of the clubs core support, myself included. As a lifelong fan of the club, season ticket holder for many years and trust member I don’t say that lightly.

    Dumbarton FC have managed quite fine without the financial benefit of the Old Firm, and we will continue to manage without it. The board must weigh up the financial benefit of one year with a newco in SFL1 and balance that with the long term loss of fans who can no longer support a club that were contributory members in putting financial gain before the integrity of the sport in this country.

    I ask that the club consider the views of their most important asset, the fans. Whether or not I renew my season ticket will depend on the club’s response to this issue.

  24. Sonsoftherock1872 permalink
    June 26, 2012 2:52 pm

    The opinion of the fans should dictate how the club vote, short term financial gain is nothing if we lose face and most importantly supporters who have followed the club through thick and thin which in my case is 31 years.

    I will always follow Dumbarton and IMO there will always be a Dumbarton with or without the Old Firm, they bring nothing to our game except bile and hatred.

    What has happened to Rangers is mismanagement of the highest order, if it was any other club except Celtic they would be out on their arse so how can the newco start in Division 1?.

    Best thing for all concerned would be for them to go to the third but I am sure Cove Rangers and Spartans would have something to say about that.

  25. Tom McAllister permalink
    June 26, 2012 5:22 pm

    The supporting of Newco being admitted to the First Division by Dumbarton would obviously anger many of our supporters, myself included. For too long has the Scottish game pandered to the whims and desires of the Old Firm and we’ve all been advised that we ‘can’t live without them’, and that in itself is a theory worth challenging. But Rangers have broken several of the game’s rules and as such (deservedly) no longer exist. Why should a Newco, branching from the old Rangers, automatically be parachuted up to the First Division? Because it’s not ‘relegation from the SPL’ as it’s being billed as by the Old Firm favourable media contingent, it would be parachuted up from the bottom of the ladder, where their application should start. There is no club to relegate from the SPL, as the Newco, and certainly Rangers, don’t have a license for Scottish Football. It’s the same principle, albeit it has been mentioned that the situation does differ, but why should Newco be given any favourable treatment in their bid to play in the Scottish Leagues, compared with previous bids from Spartans, Gala Fairydean and the likes? Were Gretna given the same options as the Newco, to quickly reform in a hastily organised league to suit them? The answer to that is categorically ‘No’.

    The SPL appears to be turning their backs on Rangers, a stance which in my opinion is long-overdue and very-much correct, but why does the division below need to be where this Newco are ‘stuck’ due to having nowhere else to go?

    Like many other Dumbarton supporters, our stance, decision and vote on the Newco will heavily affect my future support and attendance of the club. However, it’s not only Dumbarton supporters who could affect the attendances and future of the club. I personally know of many people (who support a variety of clubs across the country) who would ‘stay away’ from clubs who accept without fight, or worse still, support, the insertion of Newco into this division. You just need to read the reaction to this afternoon’s statement from Raith Rovers, to gauge the feeling from not only their supporters, but supporters of several other clubs too. It’s up to us to make our affect on Scottish football, let’s not bow down to what has been an over acceptance of the OF and their associated bile for far too long.

    Is alienating not only our own fans, but fans of this season’s opponents, (likely for more than the season in which the Newco are in this league), really worth it for the quick buck we, and others, may stand to make, in place of sporting integrity? If the answer is ‘yes’, then I’d be asking serious questions about my supporting of the club, as would thousands of other fans, both home and visiting.

  26. steven kerr permalink
    June 26, 2012 7:19 pm

    I for one will not be pandering to this newco. As much as I’d love to see us competing at arenas such as Ibrox, the terms and conditions surrounding their entry are uncompromisingly fraudulent. Newco are a sham of a team. No history no intergrity and no point. There is no place for them in this league and prostituting to sky and the SPL for a quick financial gain puts us in the same category. We will be as bad as them. I would like to think the directors at DFC would show integrity and vote NO. Listen to the fans…..

  27. Steven permalink
    June 26, 2012 11:49 pm

    Solid points made by all above.

    Newco? Don’t want them, don’t need them…over to the Board & vote NO!!!

  28. Alistair permalink
    June 27, 2012 1:17 am

    Any new club wishing to enter the SFL should make application (along with any other interested clubs) and if then chosen for admission should thereafter start in SFL Division 3. This is fairest system – – – however, the timescales involved may mean that season 2012/13 will be missed.

  29. Son abroad permalink
    June 27, 2012 9:44 am

    I have a question.In the First Division how is gate money divided? If we play at Ibrox will we get 50% of the gate receipts? Would tv money come our way?

    Or is the financial gain from Rangers Mark 11’s presence limited to two full houses at the Rock?

  30. fraser permalink
    June 27, 2012 10:57 am

    as i read it only 2 full houses at the rock so an extra what 6/700 a game ,i think the real deal is the sky talk of coverage of rangers games in div 1 ££££££££ dont think they will be so quick to do a deal for div 3

  31. Son abroad permalink
    June 27, 2012 1:07 pm

    Thanks Fraser.

    So its down to the tv money, if we accept an inducement.

  32. A.Nonymous permalink
    June 27, 2012 3:03 pm

    There is no way that the Rangers newco should be allowed directly in to the first division. this would be a complete and utter disgrace and an embarrassment to Scottish football as a whole.

    After being a season ticket for 14 years I would hope that my view is taken into consideration along with the views of all other Dumbarton fans.

    The financial gain (if any) should be no competition to the beliefs of the Dumbarton supporters that year in, year out put money into the club and help it to stay afloat.

    Why should any club be given a free pass into the First Division after the blood sweat and tears that every other club has put in to get to this position. If any newco is admitted to Scottish Football then it MUST be Division three that they start in. NO EXCEPTIONS!!!


  33. June 27, 2012 3:04 pm

    Speaking of TV I, as part of SonsTV team, won’t be back if our board bends over to this ‘newco’. Rangers and many of their fans were desperate to get away from the SPL (which they helped to set up simply to get more of the tv cash for themselves, at the expense of smaller Scottish clubs.) Now they are out, but not to English or Atlantic leagues. Sad? My arse.

  34. Graeme Robertson permalink
    June 27, 2012 5:56 pm

    Integrity is a great thing, but it usually crashes and burns at some point when it gets in the way, like boycotting New Broomfield until a play off comes along. However when it changes to an obsession / schadenfreud, the hang ’em high brigade who court no concessions should make sure they’re not sitting in a glass house before lobbing stones around. There are a number of sides who are in a precarious financial position whose present position on Newco could serious come back and bite them on their rear end. As far as ‘rules is rules’ is concerned, yes Third Division at best. However a couple of points:
    1. If you’re that obsessed with rules, a club applying for membership of the SFL needs, I believe, three years accounts. So if you’re that obsessed, they should actually be starting somewhere in the amateurs on juniors depending on who’ll have them. Have a guess at the odds of that happening. So whatever happens, a rule will be broken. So now we’re not looking at sticking to the rules, just debating which one to break. So much for integrity.
    2. Can’t imagine the Third Division sides who were favourites for promotion being over happy with Newco FC being dumped beside them.
    So, ignoring the daft halfway house of sticking them in div 2, you’re left with SFL 1. Using that word ‘pragmatic’, it’s certainly an option to swap ‘integrity’ for the achievement of some long term aims. It’s called compromise. Another word for it is ‘life’. Now, for years, there’s been noises raised by clubs (for the sake of argument lets call one of them Falkirk) about playoffs between the League and SFL. Now they seem to have developed principles that forbid them to approve a Newco in SFL 1. Perfectly entitled to do so. If that means integrity is upheld, fine. If it means no play offs are introduced and they end up second any season, I promise not to laugh (although it’ll be a fast broken promise). Equally, a change in the distribution of funds around the clubs would also be welcome. Could be argued that if the price to pay for achieving those long held goals is Newco in SFL 1, you’ll probably find the sun will actually rise the next day. It also hasn’t been pointed out that with a couple of senior players and a bunch of u19 boys, they might get relegated. You’ve seen what’s on offer at that level from our loan signings in the last couple of season. Some great, some ok, some wouldn’t get a game in our own u19 side. From the view of a DFC fan, short term, Newco in SFL 1 would be a pain. We’d have a much better chance of staying in it if Airdrie or Arbroath joined us. Also the additional crowd over, say, Dundee would be negligible. In the longer term, while introducing a playoff is unlikely (unfortunately) to affect us, extra revenue from a change in funds distribution may have a significant effect on our cash flow. Not to mention sitting at Ibrox in August with 48,000 grumpy bears. Fun it will not be. At the moment, frankly, I’m a ‘don’t know’ heading for a ‘yes’ for the correct long term benefits. As a wise man / guy in Edinburgh once said, ‘Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools’.

  35. Methusaleh permalink
    June 27, 2012 7:42 pm

    If history teaches us anything it is that laws, rules, structures, whatever made on the hoof invariably turn out to be bad ones, especially in a pressurised timeframe. And for that reason I’ve felt from the outset that the issue of Rangers’ implosion into liquidation and any restructuring/rebalancing of Scottish football should be viewed as two distinct and completely separate issues.

    Unfortunately the SFL has been somewhat bounced into a situation over which it had no control, but even at this advanced stage it surely still has the option of saying ‘Whoa, let’s just all stick to the known script here where any Newco is concerned, and sure we can all begin talks on the McLeish Report, but let’s keep it completely outwith the immediate task in hand.’

    Some of us on here are old enough to recall an age when fitba managed to survive the intravenous drip from television money. So how did that work ? I’ll tell you how; when Celtic lifted the European Cup in 1967 Billy McNeill was on 4 times a wellder’s weekly wage. Nowadays a Grade-A diddy like Kirk Broadfoot is probably on 25 times.

    In UK politics, commerce, banking, foreign affairs,defence, social policy and policing there is hardly a moral compass to be found anywhere in 2012. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if just for once a body had the moral fibre to simply do the right thing ? Glasgow Rangers have brought shame, havoc and almost certainly criminality to Scottish football; those who wish to profit from their remnants should not be assisted in that endeavour by the temporary custodians and representatives of all our other football clubs

    There is more to life, and sport, than money.

  36. Milby permalink
    June 27, 2012 8:11 pm

    Vote them out. It’s a start. Then get rid of the other lot. bunch of scum.

  37. Michael Needham permalink
    June 27, 2012 10:09 pm

    While i’m in a minority, I feel that allowing Rangers into the 1st division would avoid Cowdenbeath or even a bigger SPL team like Ross County ending up being bought by The Rangers, relocated to Ibrox and being renamed The Glasgow Rangers or something. I would accept them into the 1st division and look to play our “home” games against them at Hampden or Firhill to maximise revenue opportunity.

  38. Craig Love permalink
    June 28, 2012 3:28 pm

    I could echo so many of the sentiments and opinions made here so to keep it short and to the point….NO!! to the newco

  39. David Ferguson permalink
    June 29, 2012 10:09 am

    After viewing the SFL document which has been put on the STV website, I don’t like the way this is heading. It’s actually one of the worst documents I’ve ever read. I would sincerely hope that folk aren’t taken in by the scaremongering that is within it. I particularly liked the part where it said “Rangers have nowhere to go”. Oh, really? Boo fucking hoo. Maybe Rangers should have thought about what they were doing and they wouldn’t have no place to go. Once more we are bending over backwards to accommodate one cheek of the bigoted arse of Scottish football and it stinks. I hope those at DFC laughed in the face of that document. In saying that it might not matter as Scottish football could be over for me. The scrambling to help Rangers and restructure leagues purely just for their inclusion is despicable. I hope the meeting on Tuesday has a successful outcome.

  40. Jordan Brownlee permalink
    June 29, 2012 1:21 pm

    @Graeme Robertson,

    You make a number of valid points, however I feel I need to pick you up on a few others.

    “1. If you’re that obsessed with rules, a club applying for membership of the SFL needs, I believe, three years accounts. So if you’re that obsessed, they should actually be starting somewhere in the amateurs on juniors depending on who’ll have them. Have a guess at the odds of that happening. So whatever happens, a rule will be broken. So now we’re not looking at sticking to the rules, just debating which one to break. So much for integrity.”

    It’s not the fans who are advocating rule breaking, it’s the precious gardians of our game. You are right in saying that any application to the SFL must be supported by 3-years of accounts. The mechanism already exists. It doesn’t need bent and disfigured to benefit a particular club. That’s the point.

    “Now, for years, there’s been noises raised by clubs (for the sake of argument lets call one of them Falkirk) about playoffs between the League and SFL. Now they seem to have developed principles that forbid them to approve a Newco in SFL 1. Perfectly entitled to do so. If that means integrity is upheld, fine. If it means no play offs are introduced and they end up second any season, I promise not to laugh (although it’ll be a fast broken promise). Equally, a change in the distribution of funds around the clubs would also be welcome.”

    No one disputes that change is need in Scottsh Football. Indeed the views from supporters regarding the proposed changes have been generally positive. However, why are these changes being put forward as only valid where a “yes” vote is returned? It’s blackmail pure and simple. The newco situation should be resolved, and restructuring should be implemented regardless.

    “Could be argued that if the price to pay for achieving those long held goals is Newco in SFL 1, you’ll probably find the sun will actually rise the next day. It also hasn’t been pointed out that with a couple of senior players and a bunch of u19 boys, they might get relegated. ”

    I think you’re missing the point here. The botom line is that any new applicant to the Scottish League should start at the lowest tier; like Ross County, ICT, Annan, Peterhead etc. Saying “It’s ok they’ll struggle to win it” is ignoring the fact that the very principles of sporting achievement have been swept aside in the first place. The squad any newco put out next season is secondary to that.

    “Also the additional crowd over, say, Dundee would be negligible. In the longer term, while introducing a playoff is unlikely (unfortunately) to affect us, extra revenue from a change in funds distribution may have a significant effect on our cash flow. Not to mention sitting at Ibrox in August with 48,000 grumpy bears. Fun it will not be. At the moment, frankly, I’m a ‘don’t know’ heading for a ‘yes’ for the correct long term benefits. As a wise man / guy in Edinburgh once said, ‘Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools’.”

    This highlights they key issues for the DFC board to consider, from our own selfish point of view. However, a Sevco/Rangers/AN Other newco in our division next year will have no commercial benefit to our home gates. Not when you balance it with the support Dundee could bring, and the additional police costs would surely wipe out any hospitality income? Furthermore, the tv cash may be a short term cash boost for the club, but consider the reverse cost impact of fans who are so disillusioned with the corruption and self interest in Scottish football that they no longer feel it worth it.

  41. Bemused permalink
    June 29, 2012 3:43 pm

    Lets remember here that this ‘Newco’ is exactly that, a brand new company starting at year 0. So why would you invite a new entity into your organisation without any books, business plan, stability etc? It’s not yet known who’s behind the Green consortium so it not a bit premature to roll out the red carpet to this new club based in Govan?

  42. Graeme Robertson permalink
    June 29, 2012 3:45 pm

    Excellent reply Jordan. Would just pick you up on one thing: ‘I think you’re missing the point here. The botom line is that any new applicant to the Scottish League should start at the lowest tier; like Ross County, ICT, Annan, Peterhead etc’

    I’m not missing that point at all. What any supporters of putting them in the Third are missing is, that in order to qualify for all the requirements to start at the bottom level (or ANY level for that matter) a company must have 3 years accounts. Therefore Newco cannot, under any reading of the existing rules, be admiited this season. Many people are suggesting just that. Therefore, many people are suggesting BREAKING A RULE. So, as I said, it doesn’t seem to be the rule breaking they’ve got a problem with, just which one is broken. Which doesn’t really match up with the much used buzz word ‘Integrity’.

    As a bit of background, I’ve got a soft spot for the Old Firm: a large sand dune in the Sahara. It’s not the question of what happens to Newco that I’m having a go at (frankly I know not and care less). It’s the doublespeak from folk on soapboxes.

    Apart from that, don’t think we’re a million miles apart in thoughts!

  43. June 29, 2012 8:06 pm

    @ Graeme Robertson. You’ve saved me writing a lengthy post. Thanks for that!

  44. June 29, 2012 8:08 pm

    BTW Graeme, it was Douglas Bader.

  45. June 30, 2012 3:41 pm

    The three year accounts rule seems to be a bit uncertain so that might be a bit of a red herring. The document put out by the sfl really was appalling, not many facts but plenty of scaremongering. Then we had the threat of spl2. We should say no

  46. Jordan Brownlee permalink
    June 30, 2012 3:43 pm

    Graeme, a fair point well put.

    I believe people do understand that allowing a newco in to division 3 next season would also break existing, and long established, rules. It’s seen as the lesser of two evils.

    Despite the SFA stating that the level of rule breaking from the previous owners of Rangers fell short only of match fixing, what we have seen is a concentrated effort from both the SFA and SPL to do everything possible to sweep it all under the carpet and continue with the status quo. Most fans acknowledge that this is wrong, yet there is a sense of inevitability that a team based in Govan will be given far more concessions in re-entering the Scottish leagues than, say, Dumbarton would have.

    However, if it’s the choice of breaking one of two rules, there is a big difference in allowing a newco into the lowest tier and allowing them in with two free promotions.

    No other club, other than their gruesome counterparts across the city, would receive such concession. That is why Dumbarton FC MUST join the others in voting no to a newco in division one.

    A yes vote to “a large sand dune in the Sahara” is my new preferred option.

  47. Graeme Robertson permalink
    June 30, 2012 4:22 pm

    And Mr Bader was a wise and brave man!

    Now that we’re all in agreement about rule breaking v integrity v lesser of two evils, here’s another one that really confuses me: SPL; ‘We want you to let Newco into SFL 1’. Falkirk & Co, ‘Naw’. SPL, ‘In that case, we’ll force through the establishment of SPL 2’. Falkirk & Co, ‘Where do we sign’.

    You couldn’t make this up.

  48. Colin permalink
    July 3, 2012 11:45 pm

    Can’t say much that hasn’t already been said – only want to add my voice to the ‘No’ List! For me it has to be 3rd Division at least for Newco, preferably they would be gone for good, but if they were not to be admitted even in to the 3rd I fear we would see a repeat of Clydebank/ Airdrieoneans scenario – another team / history gone!

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